LONDON - ITV1's Formula 1 commentator Martin Brundle has sparked an outcry and complaints to the TV watchdog over his use of the word 'pikeys' at the start of the Canadian Grand Prix in Montreal on Sunday.
The media watchdog Ofcom has already received seven complaints and ITV has apologised for Brundle's slip-up.
The former driver turned commentator made his comments when he was interviewing F1 chief Bernie Ecclestone live just before the start of the race.
ADVERTISEMENT
During their conversation about the qualifying round, in which pieces of Tarmac from the track began crumbling, Brundle said: "There are some pikeys there at turn 10 putting Tarmac down -- what do you think of that?"
ITV said that a "small number" of calls had been received about the incident.
The Equality and Human Rights Commission condemned the use of the word "pikey", which was originally a slang reference for gypsies or travellers, but has now become a generally recognised term of racial abuse.
A spokesperson for the commission said: "This word has been used on television in the past and is highly derogatory. They have caused much offence in the past."
Last year, celebrity chef Marco Pierre White was forced to apologise for using the expression "pikeys picnic" on ITV's reality show 'Hells Kitchen'.
Formula 1's image is already under fire after Max Mosley, the head of motorsport's governing body, kept his job despite lurid allegations about his private life.
The News of the World claimed that Mosley engaged in Nazi role-play during a five-hour orgy in a Chelsea "torture dungeon", something he strenuously denies.
I don't often get roused enough to find a way to express my opinion in writing on stories in the press but - like everyone, I suppose - just occasionally a story comes along that, to quote someone very famous indeed, "makes my blood boil" as I seethe with fist-shaking, silent rage at the pointless interference of yet another one of the UK's six hundred thousand unelected quangos that seek to justify their existence by creating problems where none existed. And I have to write to someone...
From your piece about Martin Brundle's use of the word "pikey" on telly at the weekend: "The Equality and Human Rights Commission condemned the use of the word "pikey", which was originally a slang reference for gypsies or travellers, but has now become a generally recognised term of racial abuse.
' the f*ck are these people talking about? "... a generally recognised term of racial abuse", my arse. I mean... really... which country do these people live in? Aside from keeping themselves in work, why do they endlessly seek to create division in the name of so-called fairness?
That's it. I've taken the pill and my pulse will be back to double figures in a few minutes...
I completely agree with Andrew Baber's sentiments regarding the use of the word 'pikey.' To me 'pikey' is a slang term for gypsies, possibly slightly derogatory in tone but certainly not a 'generally recognised term of racial abuse.'
Regarding Martin Brundle's use of the word, I'm sure he meant 'pikey' to mean what I understand it to mean and not what the Equality and Human Rights Commission think it means.
Just to add to my "Hilarious" - Pikey to me is a term used for uncouth workmen who normally overcharge for re surfacing your driveway (if they actually do finish it) and having their butt crack firmly on view at all times whilst wolf whistling anything in a skirt.
Of course this is just a silly PC gaff. But before the PC-gone-mad brigade gets any frothier, pikey DOES originally refer to gypsies and travellers, and IS historically a term of racial abuse. The fact that gypsies in this country are mostly white is irrelevant - it's still a racist term. That's why it's politically incorrect, and shouldn't be on telly. Slap on the wrists for Brundle and let's move on.
There's a great episode of Pie in the Sky entitled "The Mystery of Pikey" which ITV seems to have no problem rerunning on ITV3. It features the antics of a character called Karl "Pikey" Elves and is well worth a watch.
I've seen that. And the BBC doesn't have such a problem in Dad's Army when Corporal Jones repeatedly called Private Pike (stupid boy) 'Pikey'. I can't remember the episode but I think he does it in a number of them.
'white middle-class, do-goody muppets' - now that's a generally recognised term of racial abuse - should we come up with a snappy abbreviation and work it in to conversations to try and introduce it to common language - then the Equality and Human Rights Commission would have something to whine about!
Pikey might have a dual meaning, as in cheap, but Brundle was referring to a group of people, seeing them as gypies or travellers, and so clearly derogatory in nature and maybe he was thinking back to the people who had built his drive.
Just imagine if he had been in Bahrain and he had referred to a group of "rag heads" on the track. Same difference.
There should be an apology and ITV should not be encouraging people to use this kind of language in a racial way. It never ends well.
I don't think it matters how you lot feel about the use of the word - I think the onus is on the Romany community to decide whether it is offensive to them. Personally I wouldn't use it, just as I wouldn't call an Irishman a "Mick" or use the N word when talking about a black person. Perhaps those here who disagree could test their theory by going to the nearest Gypsy community and asking to speak to the chief "Pikey". I thought not.
It's something that used to mean one thing in particular but it's been taken and used by the masses. Everyone knows what it really means but the edge has been taken off it due to it's widespread use. What about all the slang words from the end of the victorian era that are now commonplace, especially on tv and in films. I don't know how many of you have kids aged 5 to 12? I was astounded that a group of primary school children outside their school gates were using the word 'gay' to describe each other.
I don't think people have an issue with the use of words as long as it is clear that they are not meant in a derogatory way. I work with gay people and they openly express their disatisfaction with things by calling them 'gay' so it really depends on the individual if they feel they are being insulted by the use of a word.
I agree with Mr Barber entirely. PC gone crazy, stupidiy to the extreme but it's only cos people do not have the respect for one-another that they should these days and are more openly insulting to each other. Anyway, that's what I think...........
I think it's a little unfair to imagine that MB could have used the phrase 'Rag Heads' at the Bahrain GP, as his untimely misuse of the word 'pikey' doesn't necessarily mean his head is full of inappropriate slang. I'm sure it's a word we've all heard before, and we wouldn't condone in the context in which it was used, but it was a mistake and unless MB goes on a racial rampage, I'll still look forward to his bumbling grid walks and intrusive driver questioning. And what happened to Jade Goody following her abusive of Shilpa Shetty? Oh yes, she brought out another book and perfume just in time for Christmas. Where's the justice...
Totally different - Goody was guilty of racial bullying of an individual.
Don't know why people were that surprised or liked her in the first place as she is clearly not far removed from being a pikey
I cant wait for the next Brundle tarmac Walk, they are the only decent thing about F1 on ITV. When did Pikeys dererve so much respect? The only decent Pikey related history is Brad Pitt in Snatch. Gypsies/Gypos/Travellers whatever moved in down my road years ago and stole my bmx when i was 10. It was the Wolf one that made electronic sounds. I loved that bike. And my Dad got done over on the old driveway by a load of them (his fault really ) I pay Tax, I bothered to learn to read, I legally pay for cable television and I loved that BMX. Screw the PC police too, this country has gone nuts when the F1 or a broadcaster are having to apologise to 'travellers'. None of them apologise when they stole my bike. Screw the Pikeys!
First, I'd just like to make it clear that I am not a member of the harrumphing "PC gone mad" gang. In my opinion we get the society we deserve and it was us who elected the muppets who created a gazillion quangos to watch over our every move and correct us whenever we hint at impure thinking, so the cry of "PC gone mad!" is like shouting at our own reflection in a mirror.
(Do HTML tags work on this...?),
But I can't just leave it at that, given one or two of the holier-than-thou, humbug-y admonishments handed out on this thread...
First, Gordon extrapolates a one-off, light-hearted use of the word "pikey" to imply that Brundle is no less likely to call anyone from the Middle East a "rag head"; which is one way of seeing it, I suppose, but not something that would occur to most people, I reckon. You've got to really want to see it that way, in order to draw such a dubious conclusion.
Then Alastair tells us, "Agree - it's what it means to who it refers to" when, clearly, that is not his opinion at all. I just can't picture a bunch of Canadian toilers caring a jot, if only because they wouldn't have the first idea what Brundle was saying, until some self-serving do-gooder pointed it out to them. Step forward Alastair, to whom Brundle's gaff not only means a great deal but who cannot contain his fury that other people might see the incident as being marginally less newsworthy than the fall of Rome.
It's weird how those who claim to be the most liberal and tolerant frequently turn out to be exactly the opposite, particularly when it comes to utterly irrelevant issues like this. I suspect it's the kind of thinking that led Chief Rabbi Sir Jonathan Sacks to observe, "A tolerant society ignores differences, a multicultural society highlights them".
Ho hum.I bloody hope the HTML tags work or that lot will look terrible...
People are getting too worked up, i don' think he meant anything by it. It's all about the fast cars people. If only Lewis Hamilton could remember that. lol
I'm with Andrew.
Also, in the event that I experienced the same things that Mr Cheese experienced I l think it's sensible to live by the maxim 'What Would Tony Martin Do?' (WWTMD)
But surely a slap on the wrist will not resolve what is obviously a deep-rooted, institutionally racist feeling and in fact constitutes physical abuse? That's a HATE CRIME
Andrew Babbler, Jeremy Leech and Co, you are all Ron Atkinson in disguise. All part of the 'some of my friends are black, but...' brigade. Scratch the surface of many an Englishman and that's what you get. So easy to jump on the 'bash the do-gooder' bandwagon! Same old, same old, that's you lot. The Daily Mail crowd. Absolutely no concern, compassion or understanding of what it is to be an abused minority. Or how things got this way. No sense of history. No intelligence. And what's worse, you probably work in advertising or marketing or the media. What great representatives of our culture you are!! Just remember, if you're not a do-gooder then you're a 'do-badder'. There's a new word to add to your limited pinhead vocabulary. Now, get off this site and go and make your far more intelligent female boss a cup of tea.
It was, after all, me who wrote: "That's why it's politically incorrect, and shouldn't be on telly".
I also wrote: "Good point fellas. Let's bring 'Paki' back into general usage in honour of Ireland keeper Packie Bonner" (which is, remarkably, even more tenuous than Gordon's "pikey = rag heads" connection).
Another thing I penned in your name was the previously mentioned, "Agree - it's what it means to who it refers to" - when in fact what I really meant was, "Brundle's comment pisses me off, and that's what's most important - to me".
And finally, using your name for my own purposes and in a fit of PC-pique I lost my rag (...careful...Ed) and brought in my friend Mr Sweary to shout at Mr Cheese and Mr Lee for laughing at the views I had fabricated on your behalf. Ironically it would appear that the words I used to express your opinion fell foul of the Internet Language Police and have been removed.
What a total fabricator I am.
I should be carried immediately off to the Ken Livingstone Centre For Thought Purity and made to wash my mouth with caustic soda daily for 6 months. It's the only language I understand.
Knock yourself out. As storms in teacups go, truly this is one of the most tedious BR has ever seen. Oh and yes I was Mr Sweary - for what little it's worth I requested my own post to be removed.
"The Daily Crowd". That is easily the most offensive thing anyone has ever said about me. Imagine... someone thinking I read the Daily Mail... oh, the shame of it! The shame!! I will never be able to show my face nor enjoy a bottle of something luminous pink down at the bar in The Old Skinny Jeans & Retro Trainers in Hoxton ever again! I am traumatised.
Then, of course there's... "Absolutely no concern, compassion or understanding of what it is to be an abused minority. Or how things got this way. No sense of history... blah blah blah"
If you say so. After all, you seem to know me so well! Have we met? No, we haven't.
"Just remember, if you're not a do-gooder then you're a 'do-badder'.
"Oh and yes I was Mr Sweary - for what little it's worth I requested my own post to be removed."
Not merely the innocent victim of opinion-fabrication but noble to boot. Can I be you please, if only for a day?
You're right, though. This has gone quite far enough and I have wasted way too much time on something that has no relevance whatever to... well... anything.
I'd better slink away and get the kettle on. If I'm not careful my gay/lesbian/mixed-race/single-parent/capitalist runningdog of an uber-intelligent female boss will find out that I am a serial do-badder and have me flogged to within an inch of my life in the basement of the Soho Girl Power Gender Alignment Centre.
Since when are travellers a race - I thought anyone is allowed to own a caravan! Maybe, I'm just being ignorant as I didn't know that pikey meant anything but a bit of a dodgy geezer, or that gypsies are Romanian.
Everyone on here should calm down. You all work in the media industry and you all know that means you have to build bridges with eachother, not meaninglessly insult eachother over your perceived views about an insignificant uttering an old man got punished for.
Travellers of romany descent are clearly a race. Not people in caravans although really they are an curious bunch (apologies if they are any keen caravaners on their forum, that is just a personal opinion).
See, in one breath you say your posts are worth reading yet in another you aver that you requested the editor to remove one of your own posts - presumably because it wasn't worth reading.
Hmmm. What a kettle-on, head-scratching-in-confusion sort of afternoon this is turning out to be. It's not easy being a bear of very little brain. I must lie down.
Thinking about it... one more small point here... "pikey" is widely used in Kent - well, it used to be when there were hops and fruit to pick. It described the people who poured into the Weald of Kent every summer to get the crops in. Some were non-romany travellers, some were romany, others Irish but most were east enders or from the Medway towns. But, regardless of origin, four or six weeks in the country every year meant hard physical work for pretty good wages, an extended family get-together and a chance to do some serious drinking and fighting. No one could possibly describe it as a term of affection but in my experience nor could it ever be termed "racist" because it wasn't applied to one group in favour of the others.
The closest description I've seen on this thread is Martin Driskill's "a bit of a dodgy geezer": think David Jason as Pop Larkin in Darling Buds Of May. That's what a pikey is.
I don't like this fear of caravanners that is surfacing. Personally I'd never sleep in anything with wheels but hats off to those who do. More worrying are the fellas who sell dubious meat products from caravans by the side of the road. If there's one rule in life it's got to be "never buy food from anything on wheels".
The smaller the wheels the worse the food. That West Indian food from Notting Hill a few years back nearly killed me and it was served from a virtual trolley. Doh!
As for carvaners there's no defence. One of my favourite episodes of top gear was when they set fire to the caravan.
Is it wrong to like airline food? That comes from a trolley with very small wheels but I really like it. But then perhaps the correlation in this case is to the size of the wheels on the plane?
I'm not sure the wheels theory stands up to scrutiny. My gas powered BBQ has wheels, but has never had any complaints about the standard of food it serves up.
I think it depends on the airline. BA food is generally good even in
World coach class, but RyanAir food/plans is well...pikey. There's no
other word for it. And I'm not saying that as its travelling food just
because its no good. So are we back to square one?
Actually, I'd have thought burning car tyres when you don't need the heat is more full-on pikeynessossity than doing it because you're freezing in winter.
Thinking about it... getting your pikey offspring to nick the tyres, then set fire to them for heat because you and your missus are down the pub wasting the money you made selling fake DVDs on an evening of cider-fuelled fighting with each other and each other's in-laws - well, that's yer pikey's pikey...
Comments
Andrew Baber - 10/06/2008
I don't often get roused enough to find a way to express my opinion in writing on stories in the press but - like everyone, I suppose - just occasionally a story comes along that, to quote someone very famous indeed, "makes my blood boil" as I seethe with fist-shaking, silent rage at the pointless interference of yet another one of the UK's six hundred thousand unelected quangos that seek to justify their existence by creating problems where none existed. And I have to write to someone... From your piece about Martin Brundle's use of the word "pikey" on telly at the weekend: "The Equality and Human Rights Commission condemned the use of the word "pikey", which was originally a slang reference for gypsies or travellers, but has now become a generally recognised term of racial abuse. ' the f*ck are these people talking about? "... a generally recognised term of racial abuse", my arse. I mean... really... which country do these people live in? Aside from keeping themselves in work, why do they endlessly seek to create division in the name of so-called fairness? That's it. I've taken the pill and my pulse will be back to double figures in a few minutes...
AwallafaShagba - 10/06/2008
Hilarious! that is all
Neil Swan - 10/06/2008
Great journalism - to get from a derogatory comment on ITV about tarmac layers, to S&M orgies in Chelsea, in two moves! Mornington Crescent!
Stuart Kilroy - 10/06/2008
ive never known it to be a term of racial abuse? Just the predecessor to the now over used term 'chav'
Andrew Wilson - 10/06/2008
I completely agree with Andrew Baber's sentiments regarding the use of the word 'pikey.' To me 'pikey' is a slang term for gypsies, possibly slightly derogatory in tone but certainly not a 'generally recognised term of racial abuse.' Regarding Martin Brundle's use of the word, I'm sure he meant 'pikey' to mean what I understand it to mean and not what the Equality and Human Rights Commission think it means.
AwallafaShagba - 10/06/2008
Just to add to my "Hilarious" - Pikey to me is a term used for uncouth workmen who normally overcharge for re surfacing your driveway (if they actually do finish it) and having their butt crack firmly on view at all times whilst wolf whistling anything in a skirt.
Nuts n Seeds - 10/06/2008
Of course this is just a silly PC gaff. But before the PC-gone-mad brigade gets any frothier, pikey DOES originally refer to gypsies and travellers, and IS historically a term of racial abuse. The fact that gypsies in this country are mostly white is irrelevant - it's still a racist term. That's why it's politically incorrect, and shouldn't be on telly. Slap on the wrists for Brundle and let's move on.
Jeremy Lee - 10/06/2008
Is this a gafffe? I think not. Pikey is a brilliant word - it's a great example of the richness of the English language. I quite like gypo too
Ian Darby - 10/06/2008
There's a great episode of Pie in the Sky entitled "The Mystery of Pikey" which ITV seems to have no problem rerunning on ITV3. It features the antics of a character called Karl "Pikey" Elves and is well worth a watch.
Jeremy Lee - 10/06/2008
I've seen that. And the BBC doesn't have such a problem in Dad's Army when Corporal Jones repeatedly called Private Pike (stupid boy) 'Pikey'. I can't remember the episode but I think he does it in a number of them.
Nuts n Seeds - 10/06/2008
Good point fellas. Let's bring 'Paki' back into general usage in honour of Ireland keeper Packie Bonner.
gotnoteef - 10/06/2008
'white middle-class, do-goody muppets' - now that's a generally recognised term of racial abuse - should we come up with a snappy abbreviation and work it in to conversations to try and introduce it to common language - then the Equality and Human Rights Commission would have something to whine about!
Gordon Macmillan - 10/06/2008
Pikey might have a dual meaning, as in cheap, but Brundle was referring to a group of people, seeing them as gypies or travellers, and so clearly derogatory in nature and maybe he was thinking back to the people who had built his drive.
Just imagine if he had been in Bahrain and he had referred to a group of "rag heads" on the track. Same difference.
There should be an apology and ITV should not be encouraging people to use this kind of language in a racial way. It never ends well.
Daniel kENNEDY - 10/06/2008
I don't think it matters how you lot feel about the use of the word - I think the onus is on the Romany community to decide whether it is offensive to them. Personally I wouldn't use it, just as I wouldn't call an Irishman a "Mick" or use the N word when talking about a black person. Perhaps those here who disagree could test their theory by going to the nearest Gypsy community and asking to speak to the chief "Pikey". I thought not.
Nuts n Seeds - 10/06/2008
Agree - it's what it means to who it refers to.
tristram de silva - 10/06/2008
It's something that used to mean one thing in particular but it's been taken and used by the masses. Everyone knows what it really means but the edge has been taken off it due to it's widespread use. What about all the slang words from the end of the victorian era that are now commonplace, especially on tv and in films. I don't know how many of you have kids aged 5 to 12? I was astounded that a group of primary school children outside their school gates were using the word 'gay' to describe each other. I don't think people have an issue with the use of words as long as it is clear that they are not meant in a derogatory way. I work with gay people and they openly express their disatisfaction with things by calling them 'gay' so it really depends on the individual if they feel they are being insulted by the use of a word. I agree with Mr Barber entirely. PC gone crazy, stupidiy to the extreme but it's only cos people do not have the respect for one-another that they should these days and are more openly insulting to each other. Anyway, that's what I think...........
martin bowley - 10/06/2008
weren't they Pikeys ?
Jeremy Lee - 10/06/2008
I think they were gypos
David Gibbons - 10/06/2008
I think it's a little unfair to imagine that MB could have used the phrase 'Rag Heads' at the Bahrain GP, as his untimely misuse of the word 'pikey' doesn't necessarily mean his head is full of inappropriate slang. I'm sure it's a word we've all heard before, and we wouldn't condone in the context in which it was used, but it was a mistake and unless MB goes on a racial rampage, I'll still look forward to his bumbling grid walks and intrusive driver questioning. And what happened to Jade Goody following her abusive of Shilpa Shetty? Oh yes, she brought out another book and perfume just in time for Christmas. Where's the justice...
Jeremy Lee - 10/06/2008
Totally different - Goody was guilty of racial bullying of an individual. Don't know why people were that surprised or liked her in the first place as she is clearly not far removed from being a pikey
Mr Cheese - 10/06/2008
I cant wait for the next Brundle tarmac Walk, they are the only decent thing about F1 on ITV. When did Pikeys dererve so much respect? The only decent Pikey related history is Brad Pitt in Snatch. Gypsies/Gypos/Travellers whatever moved in down my road years ago and stole my bmx when i was 10. It was the Wolf one that made electronic sounds. I loved that bike. And my Dad got done over on the old driveway by a load of them (his fault really ) I pay Tax, I bothered to learn to read, I legally pay for cable television and I loved that BMX. Screw the PC police too, this country has gone nuts when the F1 or a broadcaster are having to apologise to 'travellers'. None of them apologise when they stole my bike. Screw the Pikeys!
Daniel kENNEDY - 10/06/2008
Do your Chalky! I love that. Hilarious.
Matt Kelly - 10/06/2008
Andrew Baber hit the nail on the head... need I say anymore www.mattkelly.typepad.com
Andrew Baber - 10/06/2008
I'll try again...Sorry about that
First, I'd just like to make it clear that I am not a member of the harrumphing "PC gone mad" gang. In my opinion we get the society we deserve and it was us who elected the muppets who created a gazillion quangos to watch over our every move and correct us whenever we hint at impure thinking, so the cry of "PC gone mad!" is like shouting at our own reflection in a mirror.
(Do HTML tags work on this...?),
But I can't just leave it at that, given one or two of the holier-than-thou, humbug-y admonishments handed out on this thread...
First, Gordon extrapolates a one-off, light-hearted use of the word "pikey" to imply that Brundle is no less likely to call anyone from the Middle East a "rag head"; which is one way of seeing it, I suppose, but not something that would occur to most people, I reckon. You've got to really want to see it that way, in order to draw such a dubious conclusion.
Then Alastair tells us, "Agree - it's what it means to who it refers to" when, clearly, that is not his opinion at all. I just can't picture a bunch of Canadian toilers caring a jot, if only because they wouldn't have the first idea what Brundle was saying, until some self-serving do-gooder pointed it out to them. Step forward Alastair, to whom Brundle's gaff not only means a great deal but who cannot contain his fury that other people might see the incident as being marginally less newsworthy than the fall of Rome.
It's weird how those who claim to be the most liberal and tolerant frequently turn out to be exactly the opposite, particularly when it comes to utterly irrelevant issues like this. I suspect it's the kind of thinking that led Chief Rabbi Sir Jonathan Sacks to observe, "A tolerant society ignores differences, a multicultural society highlights them".
Ho hum.I bloody hope the HTML tags work or that lot will look terrible...
Hal Clarke - 10/06/2008
People are getting too worked up, i don' think he meant anything by it. It's all about the fast cars people. If only Lewis Hamilton could remember that. lol
Andrew Baber - 10/06/2008
Hear, hear. Thanks for saving my blushes on the appalling use of HTML tags.
Jeremy Lee - 10/06/2008
I'm with Andrew. Also, in the event that I experienced the same things that Mr Cheese experienced I l think it's sensible to live by the maxim 'What Would Tony Martin Do?' (WWTMD)
Nuts n Seeds - 10/06/2008
See my first post in this thread: 'slap on the wrists for Brundle and let's move on'. The rest of my 'views' you've totally fabricated. Well done you.
Nuts n Seeds - 10/06/2008
PS that was for Andrew's benefit.
Jeremy Lee - 10/06/2008
But surely a slap on the wrist will not resolve what is obviously a deep-rooted, institutionally racist feeling and in fact constitutes physical abuse? That's a HATE CRIME
Mark Griffiths - 10/06/2008
Andrew Babbler, Jeremy Leech and Co, you are all Ron Atkinson in disguise. All part of the 'some of my friends are black, but...' brigade. Scratch the surface of many an Englishman and that's what you get. So easy to jump on the 'bash the do-gooder' bandwagon! Same old, same old, that's you lot. The Daily Mail crowd. Absolutely no concern, compassion or understanding of what it is to be an abused minority. Or how things got this way. No sense of history. No intelligence. And what's worse, you probably work in advertising or marketing or the media. What great representatives of our culture you are!! Just remember, if you're not a do-gooder then you're a 'do-badder'. There's a new word to add to your limited pinhead vocabulary. Now, get off this site and go and make your far more intelligent female boss a cup of tea.
Andrew Baber - 10/06/2008
Indeed I did fabricate your views.
It was, after all, me who wrote: "That's why it's politically incorrect, and shouldn't be on telly".
I also wrote: "Good point fellas. Let's bring 'Paki' back into general usage in honour of Ireland keeper Packie Bonner" (which is, remarkably, even more tenuous than Gordon's "pikey = rag heads" connection).
Another thing I penned in your name was the previously mentioned, "Agree - it's what it means to who it refers to" - when in fact what I really meant was, "Brundle's comment pisses me off, and that's what's most important - to me".
And finally, using your name for my own purposes and in a fit of PC-pique I lost my rag (...careful...Ed) and brought in my friend Mr Sweary to shout at Mr Cheese and Mr Lee for laughing at the views I had fabricated on your behalf. Ironically it would appear that the words I used to express your opinion fell foul of the Internet Language Police and have been removed.
What a total fabricator I am.
I should be carried immediately off to the Ken Livingstone Centre For Thought Purity and made to wash my mouth with caustic soda daily for 6 months. It's the only language I understand.
Nuts n Seeds - 10/06/2008
Knock yourself out. As storms in teacups go, truly this is one of the most tedious BR has ever seen. Oh and yes I was Mr Sweary - for what little it's worth I requested my own post to be removed.
Andrew Baber - 10/06/2008
"The Daily Crowd". That is easily the most offensive thing anyone has ever said about me. Imagine... someone thinking I read the Daily Mail... oh, the shame of it! The shame!! I will never be able to show my face nor enjoy a bottle of something luminous pink down at the bar in The Old Skinny Jeans & Retro Trainers in Hoxton ever again! I am traumatised.
Then, of course there's... "Absolutely no concern, compassion or understanding of what it is to be an abused minority. Or how things got this way. No sense of history... blah blah blah"
If you say so. After all, you seem to know me so well! Have we met? No, we haven't.
"Just remember, if you're not a do-gooder then you're a 'do-badder'.
Yes, of course. There is no other way.
martin bowley - 10/06/2008
Has anyone got their number ,my nans drive needs doing .
Jeremy Lee - 10/06/2008
Try 'em down the tip
Andrew Baber - 10/06/2008
"Oh and yes I was Mr Sweary - for what little it's worth I requested my own post to be removed."
Not merely the innocent victim of opinion-fabrication but noble to boot. Can I be you please, if only for a day?
You're right, though. This has gone quite far enough and I have wasted way too much time on something that has no relevance whatever to... well... anything.
I'd better slink away and get the kettle on. If I'm not careful my gay/lesbian/mixed-race/single-parent/capitalist runningdog of an uber-intelligent female boss will find out that I am a serial do-badder and have me flogged to within an inch of my life in the basement of the Soho Girl Power Gender Alignment Centre.
Justin Driskill - 10/06/2008
Since when are travellers a race - I thought anyone is allowed to own a caravan! Maybe, I'm just being ignorant as I didn't know that pikey meant anything but a bit of a dodgy geezer, or that gypsies are Romanian. Everyone on here should calm down. You all work in the media industry and you all know that means you have to build bridges with eachother, not meaninglessly insult eachother over your perceived views about an insignificant uttering an old man got punished for.
Nuts n Seeds - 10/06/2008
No you can't be me. My posts are worth reading - I wouldn't want you diluting my output.
Gordon Macmillan - 10/06/2008
Travellers of romany descent are clearly a race. Not people in caravans although really they are an curious bunch (apologies if they are any keen caravaners on their forum, that is just a personal opinion).
Justin Driskill - 10/06/2008
ok. in that case i apologise to all Romanians, Travellers and caravaners.
Andrew Baber - 10/06/2008
I am crushed.
Crushed, yet concomitantly confused.
See, in one breath you say your posts are worth reading yet in another you aver that you requested the editor to remove one of your own posts - presumably because it wasn't worth reading.
Hmmm. What a kettle-on, head-scratching-in-confusion sort of afternoon this is turning out to be. It's not easy being a bear of very little brain. I must lie down.
Until next time, braves.
Nuts n Seeds - 10/06/2008
Look forward to it. X
Jeremy Lee - 10/06/2008
I hate caravanners too - proper scum
Ricky Harewood - 10/06/2008
Pikey is the word for Irish travellers... and to my knowledge has never been associated with Romany Gypsies...
Darren Davidson - 10/06/2008
Justin Driskill - Martin Brundle is only 49 ... hardly an "old man" as you say!
Jeremy Lee - 10/06/2008
ageist. HATE CRIME
Andrew Baber - 10/06/2008
Thinking about it... one more small point here... "pikey" is widely used in Kent - well, it used to be when there were hops and fruit to pick. It described the people who poured into the Weald of Kent every summer to get the crops in. Some were non-romany travellers, some were romany, others Irish but most were east enders or from the Medway towns. But, regardless of origin, four or six weeks in the country every year meant hard physical work for pretty good wages, an extended family get-together and a chance to do some serious drinking and fighting. No one could possibly describe it as a term of affection but in my experience nor could it ever be termed "racist" because it wasn't applied to one group in favour of the others.
The closest description I've seen on this thread is Martin Driskill's "a bit of a dodgy geezer": think David Jason as Pop Larkin in Darling Buds Of May. That's what a pikey is.
Ian Darby - 10/06/2008
I don't like this fear of caravanners that is surfacing. Personally I'd never sleep in anything with wheels but hats off to those who do. More worrying are the fellas who sell dubious meat products from caravans by the side of the road. If there's one rule in life it's got to be "never buy food from anything on wheels".
Jeremy Lee - 10/06/2008
I agree with Ian And much as I liked watching Darling Buds of May in the 80s, the pikeys around where I lived were nothing like that.
Andrew Baber - 10/06/2008
Actually, strictly speaking, if there's one rule in life to live by it's "never argue with a man whose neck is bigger than his head".
Or, possibly, "Unless you're in Asia, never eat at a restaurant with a picture menu"
Jeremy Lee - 10/06/2008
WWTMD
Noel Bussey - 10/06/2008
I wonder if anyone on here has got Eastern European Pikey blood in em?
Jeremy Lee - 11/06/2008
He'd have to be a real hypocritical bigot
ormiston groove - 11/06/2008
is the answer to WWTMD "hide in the dark and shoot a 16-year-old in the back with an unlicensed shotgun". Do I win a prize?
Jeremy Lee - 11/06/2008
I thought it was very sporting of him to give the thieving little scum a head start
Gordon Macmillan - 11/06/2008
The smaller the wheels the worse the food. That West Indian food from Notting Hill a few years back nearly killed me and it was served from a virtual trolley. Doh!
As for carvaners there's no defence. One of my favourite episodes of top gear was when they set fire to the caravan.
Jeremy Lee - 11/06/2008
Is it wrong to like airline food? That comes from a trolley with very small wheels but I really like it. But then perhaps the correlation in this case is to the size of the wheels on the plane?
Darren Davidson - 11/06/2008
I'm not sure the wheels theory stands up to scrutiny. My gas powered BBQ has wheels, but has never had any complaints about the standard of food it serves up.
Hal Clarke - 11/06/2008
I think it depends on the airline. BA food is generally good even in World coach class, but RyanAir food/plans is well...pikey. There's no other word for it. And I'm not saying that as its travelling food just because its no good. So are we back to square one?
Pikey definition
1. Cheap and nasty
2. Group of travellersIan Darby - 11/06/2008
Darren - nice as your BBQ food is, if you started selling it by the side of a main road I'd think twice about buying it. Just not worth the risk.
Jeremy Lee - 11/06/2008
is that because you'd be worried that he might be a pikey?
Andrew Baber - 11/06/2008
"My gas powered BBQ" Gas barbies are soooooooooooooooooooooooo pikey.
Jeremy Lee - 11/06/2008
No. Burning car tyres for heat is proper pikey
Andrew Baber - 11/06/2008
Actually, I'd have thought burning car tyres when you don't need the heat is more full-on pikeynessossity than doing it because you're freezing in winter.
Jeremy Lee - 11/06/2008
That's true - good point
Andrew Baber - 11/06/2008
Thinking about it... getting your pikey offspring to nick the tyres, then set fire to them for heat because you and your missus are down the pub wasting the money you made selling fake DVDs on an evening of cider-fuelled fighting with each other and each other's in-laws - well, that's yer pikey's pikey...
Or is that chavvie?
It's so hard to know the difference these days.
Jeremy Lee - 12/06/2008
I expect most of them are in Portofino at the moment
Andrew Baber - 12/06/2008
Well here's Jasper Gerrad's not unamusing take on the whole non-story, from today's Torygraph. Sorry it's not the Grauniad...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2008/06/12/sfnjas312.xml